For some Texans on the border, more walls and patrols won't solve the immigration crisis

Public Radio International
August 13, 2014
by Jason Margolis

Scott Nicol, a college art teacher and sculptor, likes to bring people to walk the border wall in Hidalgo, Texas. On a windy day, we stroll along a path in the shadow of 18-foot-high iron bars. One of Nicol’s favorite pastimes is hunting for homemade wooden ladders.

“That’s how you get over the wall," says Nicol pointing at some ladders lying on the ground. "I mean that’s what they’re for. It takes $2 or $3 worth of hardware and nails to defeat a wall that cost $12 million a mile,” says Nicol.

That’s $12 million a mile for this section of wall — the average cost per mile across the border is closer to $4.5 million.

President Obama is asking for $3.7 billion to deal with the latest border crisis — tens of thousands of unaccompanied Central American children coming to the US border seeking asylum. House Republicans have countered with an offer of $694 million, with contingencies. The big one is that they want more border security.

That makes Nicol apoplectic. During our 30-minute stroll, we counted the Border Patrol jeeps. We found eight, as well as one ATV and a helicopter overhead. Texas Game Wardens also patrol the Rio Grande in speedboats mounted with machine guns.
 
“That makes me very nervous,” says Nicol. “There’s absolutely no reason or instance where you would be using that kind of artillery unless there’s a military invasion.”

Yet, more reinforcements are on the way. Texas Governor Rick Perry says he’s sending up to 1,000 National Guard troops to the border soon. Perry says they’re needed to stop drugs and criminals.

Nicol, who also does work with the Sierra Club, says the border wall became his issue for a simple reason: it just makes him angry. To him, it's too costly and divides habitat areas like a wildlife bird sanctuary on the river. He understands the need for border security, but thinks much of the wall's design simply doesn’t make sense. For example, as we’re walking along for nearly a mile, the wall stops.

“Obviously anybody that has traveled up from Central America is not going to be stopped by something that’s only 9/10th of a mile wide. They’ll just go around it,” says Nicol.

It works this way up and down the Rio Grande — there's the wall, then a gap for a few miles, then more wall.

But the chief patrol agent for the Rio Grande Valley, Kevin Oaks, says the wall isn’t as haphazard as Nicol makes it out to be.

“What it does is it slows the traffic down temporarily, so it gives the agents and whatever technology we employ a little more time to get activated,” says Oaks. The Border Patrol also has unmanned aerial vehicles — drones — that patrol more isolated stretches of the border.

Oaks admits that people can use a ladder to climb over the wall, or even tunnel under. But he says it’s all about striking a balance between what can be funded and what can be achieved.

“If you look at history, there’s no physical way that you can ever possibly, 100 percent secure the border. So you have to come up with a compromise, and that compromise is a low-risk border,” says Oaks. For him, that means safe border communities and a low flow of drugs and criminals coming across.

By many metrics, the investment is paying off — the border is the most secure it’s been in 40 years. The annual tab for immigration and border enforcement nationwide: $18 billion. The budget for just the US Border Patrol alone is closer to $3.5 billion annually.

Community activist Michael Seifert, who lives less than a mile from the border in Brownsville, says there are other costs for border residents, on both sides. Border Patrol agents have killed 19 people, some US citizens, but mostly Mexicans, in a recent two-and-a-half year period.

“And not a single one of those cases has been brought to a fitting conclusion — this is what happened, the agent was justified or not. They’re simply not pursued,” says Seifert.

Kevin Oaks says his agents aren’t acting with impunity. “Every allegation of misconduct is thoroughly investigated and adjudicated appropriately.” 
 
Oaks says the FBI and the Office of Inspector General oversee corruption and criminal charges lodged against Border Patrol. They also conduct internal investigations.

Scott Nicol says he's never had a problem with any agents directly and understands the vast majority are trained professionals just doing their jobs. Still, he doesn’t want more agents to deal with this latest border crisis. After all, he says, Central American children are turning themselves in, not sneaking into the US.

“The response from certain politicians is, ‘Send in the National Guard, build more walls,’” says Nicol. “They can’t get their heads around immigration, they can only think about it in terms of security.”

Nicol, as well other border residents, agree more resources are needed to deal with this latest border crisis. But they want money to ease the backlog in immigration courts and provide better services for the children, not to build more security.

http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-08-13/some-texans-border-more-walls-and-patrols-wont-solve-immigration-crisis

Border realities, policies focus of film trifecta

Arizona Daily Star
December 9, 2010
by Phil Villarreal


Several groups that support human-rights and environmental causes in the border region have joined forces to stage a free documentary triple feature at the Loft Cinema.

"Wild vs. Wall," a 2009 film on the environmental impact of border policies, will lead off the night. "Fencing the Border and its Birds," from the Cornell Lab of Ornithology, in which U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service officials express concerns about the impact the border fence will have on animals, is second. HBO's "The Fence," which features interviews with people on various sides of border issues, closes out the event.

The total running time for the films is two hours.

The Sierra Club, the Center for Biological Diversity, Coalición de Derechos Humanos, the Defenders of Wildlife, No More Deaths and the Sky Island Alliance are sponsoring the screening, which will be followed by a panel discussion with a border landowner and representatives from the sponsoring organizations.

Dan Millis, a 31-year-old campaign organizer for the Sierra Club, is one of the event coordinators, and he spoke to us about the films. Millis, a graduate of Lewis and Clark College, is from Flagstaff but has lived in Tucson since 2005.

Tell me about the movies.

" 'Wild vs. Wall' was originally produced here in Tucson in 2008 by filmmaker Steev Hise, through the grass-roots efforts of locals who are concerned about threats to our border environment. It has been recently updated for 2010 and beyond, and we are excited to share the new footage, information and Spanish subtitles featured in this most recent version."

What about the others?

"The Cornell Ornithology Lab has some amazing footage of beautiful bird species along the border, and at only seven minutes long, the short makes a wonderful opener. Rory Kennedy's 'The Fence' is a masterful production that highlights the pointlessness, expense, impact and hypocrisy of the border wall, using humor and a fast pace to keep the audience involved. It is amazing, and we're very pleased to be able to share it with Tucson."

Do you have plans for future festivals like this?

"We don't have any specific plans for future screenings, though we regularly present 'Wild vs. Wall' to community groups locally, nationally, even abroad. During the month of November, for example, I traveled to Hermosillo and Denver to show the film at a biology conference and at a church event."

What concept do you want viewers to take away from the event?

"There is a big disconnect between how the border is often portrayed in the media, and the reality on the ground. Folks who watch these films will get a taste of how wonderful the protected natural areas along the border really are.

"It would be hard to watch these films and not question the knee-jerk policies that are currently militarizing our borderlands. In about an hour total, these three films will hopefully inspire folks to help us look for a better way to protect our precious border wildlands."

IF YOU GO

• What: Border Film Festival, a program of three short documentaries.

• When: 11 a.m. Saturday

• Where: The Loft Cinema, 3233 E. Speedway.

• Admission: Free, but donations to the Sierra Club's Borderlands Campaign will be accepted.

http://azstarnet.com/entertainment/movies/article_1f5a8186-a903-59fe-b5d1-36d5961c27df.html

Texas group calls on senators to nix border fence expansion

Center for Investigative Reporting
May 7, 2010
by G.W. Shulz

More than two-dozen cities and counties in southern Texas joined by environmentalists and immigrant-rights organizations are calling on two lawmakers to end their push for additional fencing along the nation’s boundary with Mexico.

In a letter to Senate leaders May 6, the Texas Border Coalition and others argued that the approximately 650 miles of fencing already constructed in recent years has divided communities, negatively impacted the environment and cost taxpayers a fortune. They say that despite investing $2.6 billion so far, the barrier’s value in stopping the flow of illegal immigration and drug traffickers from Mexico hasn’t been studied.

The lack of such an analysis was confirmed this week by the Government Accountability Office, a watchdog arm of Congress, which concluded in a report that Customs and Border Protection “cannot account separately for the impact of tactical infrastructure,” i.e. border fencing.

Nonetheless, Republican senators Jim DeMint of South Carolina and David Vitter of Louisiana on Wednesday proposed expanding the fence in a legislative amendment attached to an unrelated bill that addresses Wall Street reform.

DeMint said in a statement May 5 that little more than 30 miles of the fencing so far is double-layered and his amendment would make that the case for a full 700 miles. Last year, the press release said, a similar amendment was approved in the Senate by a 54-44 vote, but “Democrat leaders gutted the amendment behind closed doors.”

“We’ve had rhetoric and promises for four years without results,” DeMint said. “It’s time we completed the fence and secured our borders to protect American citizens.”

The letter from opponents, however, disputes that the barrier is successful in deterring intruders:

"The amendment has nothing to do with the issue of financial reform and threatens to play politics with the important goals of the underlying legislation. … Existing border walls have separated communities and families, cut through significant cultural sites and historic lands, caused damaging floods and erosion, and fractured habitat and migration corridors vital to wildlife pushed to the brink of extinction. These impacts are even more pronounced in light of the inability of a fence to solve our broken immigration system. If Congress perceives that the purpose of border walls is to seal the border from illegal activity, then the program is, and will continue to be, a costly failure."

The Texas Border Coalition represents several cities and counties in the southern area of the Lone Star State and filed suit against the Bush Administration in 2008 to stop 70 miles of fencing planned for the Rio Grande Valley. They argued at the time that the Department of Homeland Security failed to consult with them about the fence’s environmental and commercial impacts and claimed that the fence arbitrarily ceased at the property lines of wealthier landowners. A judge tossed the coalition’s legal challenge last year.

Other lawmakers in recent weeks, meanwhile, have raised questions about whether a costly and troubled border surveillance program known as SBInet should be abandoned due to delays and cost overruns. At one time, the government proposed lining the entire southwestern border with cameras, sensors and wired command centers that could detect illegal border crossers. But after spending somewhere in the neighborhood of $800 million, the defense contractor hired to build SBInet, Boeing Co., will complete only about 50 miles for certain.

The Obama Administration announced earlier this year that it was re-directing $50 million in Recovery Act funds set aside for SBInet to other technologies. Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.), chairman of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, during an April hearing called SBInet “a classic example of a program that was grossly oversold.” He’s argued in support of fencing and said the alternative to SBInet may be to double and even triple-layer the barrier in some areas of the border.


http://www.centerforinvestigativereporting.org/blogpost/20100507texasgroupcallsonsenatorstonixborderfenceexpansion

We All Fight the Wall

San Diego Reader
March 21, 2010
by Carolyn Grace Matteo

U.S./Mexico border problems and their effect on the Tijuana Estuary was the focus of the March 19 Sierra Club’s meeting in Hillcrest.

According to a Sierra Club press release, laws protecting the environment, archaeological sites, religious freedom, and cultural concerns were waived so border-wall construction could proceed.

“Our committee has been fighting the border wall for a long time,” said Jean Costa, international committee representative. “The Sierra Club supports HR4321 because it prohibits construction of more border walls and the breaking of environmental and community protection laws....

“In Texas, it went right through people’s land. But, you won’t find the wall in any fancy resorts. They build the wall where they think people don’t have the power to fight it. This bill is the beginning of solving a very complicated problem, the roots of which aren’t being addressed. I urge you to support it.”

Dr. Mike McCoy said, “The [construction of] border fence between the U.S. and Mexico called Operation Gatekeeper began in 1994. There were no permits. They just built it. The big problem with these fences is that the animals that migrate north — jaguar, deer, reptiles, and other mammals — separate gene pools on both sides. You decrease the biological capability of that organism to survive; this especially impacts bighorn sheep."

McCoy considers the border wall a tribute to the politics of fear. “Injustice, economic disparity, and the inability to distribute wealth and opportunity equitably are at the root of the wall.”

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2010/mar/21/we-all-fight-wall/

BORDER FENCE: Critics push DHS, Interior to set mitigation goals

Land Letter
July 30, 2009
by April Reese

As contractors erect the last sections of a congressionally mandated fence across vast swaths of the U.S.-Mexico border, critics are pressing the Obama administration to begin mitigating the barrier's environmental impacts.

In a July 23 letter sent to Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, 43 lawmakers urged the secretary to "consider the importance of monitoring, mitigation, and environmental training for border security personnel in order to quantify, compensate for and avoid the negative consequences of border security infrastructure and operations."

The members also suggested Napolitano create a "robust border-wide environmental monitoring program" and provide "sufficient mitigation funding for damage caused by border security infrastructure and enforcement activities."

In January, DHS received $50 million to offset the ecological harm done by the 700-mile fence, which was authorized by Congress under the 2005 Secure Fence Act (Land Letter, Jan. 22)

But while the $50 million is a good start, it is not enough to fully offset the environmental effects of the fence, the lawmakers wrote. "There are numerous impacts across the border caused by both security infrastructure and operations that will require significantly more resources to properly monitor and mitigate," the letter reads.

Matt Clark of Defenders of Wildlife's Tucson, Ariz., office estimates it could cost more than $1 billion for a comprehensive mitigation effort.

The Homeland Security appropriations bill passed by the House last month included an additional $40 million for borderlands monitoring and mitigation. The Senate version did not, however, and it is unclear whether the measure will survive further tinkering during conference negotiations.

Rick Schultz, national borderlands coordinator for the Interior Department, who is serving as Interior's liaison to DHS on mitigation of border fence impacts, said he would like to see the $40 million, if it remains part of the bill, go toward funding a comprehensive monitoring program.

"We need that monitoring program to keep an eye on species," both federally listed ones and unlisted ones, Schultz said. "It would help us in terms of monitoring the effects, both positive and negative on the desert communities down there." Interior is working with DHS to develop some pilot monitoring projects, he said.

Clark would also like to see the $40 million go toward monitoring. As it stands now, very little monitoring is being done, he said.

"In terms of really understanding the wildlife and ecological impacts, I think the federal government is flying blindfolded," he said. "We think we know which species are impacted, but there's very little science or monitoring going on on the ground."

Agency foot-dragging?

While Congress deliberates whether to provide more funding to address the fence's environmental consequences, the Interior Department is finalizing the list of projects that will be funded under the $50 million mitigation fund appropriated in January. Under an interagency agreement, DHS is to transfer the funds to Interior once the projects are decided upon. But despite a June 1 deadline, Interior has yet to issue a final list of projects.

While some have accused the departments of foot-dragging, Schultz said they simply want to make sure the projects provide the biggest ecological bang for the buck.

"There hasn't been a delay," Schultz said. "It just takes time to reach consensus and agreement on what the projects should be." Officials are also aware of the scrutiny the list will receive. "Since all of this will be available to the public, we want to make sure the projects are well justified and well deserved," he added.

Part of the problem, Schultz noted, is that biologists working at wildlife refuges, national monuments and other federally protected areas along the border have proposed more projects than the mitigation fund can pay for. "We've identified more projects than money available," he said. Officials are now trying to decide which of the projects should receive top priority, he added.

The projects will all focus on benefiting threatened and endangered species affected by the border fence. Types of projects that will likely receive funding include habitat restoration, habitat acquisition and biological monitoring of certain species, Schultz said.

Last April, then-DHS Secretary Michael Chertoff used his authority under the REAL ID Act of 2005 to waive 37 federal laws and all state, local and tribal laws to expedite construction of the fence along 500 miles of the border. Among the environmental laws included in the waiver were the Endangered Species Act, Clean Water Act and the National Environmental Policy Act.

Schultz said he is hoping the list of mitigation projects will be finalized, and funds will flow into Interior's coffers within the next two to three months. "There is a sense of urgency," he said. "At least for me anyway, I've made it a priority to finish the list or projects and the interagency agreement."

Dan Millis, borderlands campaign organizer for the Sierra Club in Tucson, was more blunt. "Unfortunately, we're stuck with the problem now because our government acted so irresponsibly," he said. "It's an open wound. It's going to be difficult to bandage up. So we need to act as quickly as possible to address some of the damage."

Worsening conditions

The longer the government waits, the worse the damage could become, Millis said. That is because summer monsoons are hitting the desert borderlands, increasing the likelihood for flooding and erosion, he said.

In their July 23 letter, lawmakers noted that the National Park Service reported in August 2008 that border fencing along the Lukeville, Ariz., Port of Entry exacerbated seasonal flooding and accelerated erosion on the Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument, "threatening to permanently alter the hydrology of the area if modifications are not made to rectify the inadequate design."

While some of the damage to habitat, waterways and other resources cannot be compensated for, "there are creative ways to provide for both conservation benefits and effective border security at the same time," Clark said.

For example, near Yuma, Ariz., the clearing of tamarisk along the Colorado River benefited both wildlife and security, because it improved visibility. "There are win-wins out there, but there has to be a willingness to consider alternatives," he said. "What can be effective for both conservation and security? Those are the kinds of questions we need to be asking."

http://www.eenews.net/Landletter/2009/07/30/9/

Lawmakers: Border fence has drawbacks

El Paso Times
July 25, 2009
by Diana Washington Valdez

EL PASO -- U.S. Rep. Silvestre Reyes, D-Texas, and 42 other lawmakers are asking Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano to reduce the damage to communities and the environment caused by border barriers and other security border operations.

On Friday, the lawmakers sent Napolitano a letter detailing their concerns and asking her to act on them.

A spokesperson for the Homeland Security Department in Washington, D.C., was not available late Friday for comment.

In some places along the border, some of the security structures have worsened seasonal flooding, according to a 2008 National Park Service report, and may be hurting the Tijuana River habitat, the lawmakers said.

"This massive federal project has had deleterious consequences upon natural and cultural public resources, and has caused hardship for private land owners whose lands have been condemned and livelihoods have been disrupted," the letter said.

Oliver Bernstein, spokesman for the Sierra Club in Austin, which supports the legislators' campaign, said U.S. Rep. Raul M. Grijalva, D-Ariz., is helping to spearhead the effort.

"The Sierra Club has been working to get congressional support for this type of review that would lead to undoing the damage to wildlife," Bernstein said. "There's been increasing awareness of the damage caused by the (fence) project."

Border interdiction activities, such as the use of off-road vehicles and low-level flights, also damage the environment, the letter said. Lawmakers recommend training and other measures to reduce the damage.

Bernstein said the House had voted to delete money for additional border fencing, but the Senate restored the money in its appropriations bill.

Border Patrol officials said the border fence planned for the El Paso sector has been completed.

In a statement, Reyes said, "It is imperative that the Department of Homeland Security work closely with other federal agencies and border communities to mitigate the negative environmental impact the border fence has caused in some areas.

"Federal agencies currently do not have adequate monitoring in place to address the disruptions that resulted from the border fence, and we are urging Secretary Napolitano to implement a border-wide strategy to deal with these problems."

http://www.elpasotimes.com/ci_12911565

Quenching Thirst in the Desert: An Interview with Dan Millis

June 4, 2009
Ecohearth
by Marita Prandoni

To many, immigrant rights and ecological issues seem worlds apart. Others see a strong connection between the two, none more so than Dan Millis, a volunteer with No More Deaths • No Más Muertes (NMD). Along the Arizona-Mexican border, NMD workers administer first aid, food, water and clothing at desert humanitarian stations to ease the suffering of migrants as they attempt the desert trek north, or are deported back to the south. In the first year and a half of operation, one station in Nogales aided more than 200,000 people who were dumped off by US Homeland Security and forced to walk across the border to Mexico.

In February of 2008, Dan—who was born and raised in Arizona, studied Hispanic issues, and spent time living in Chile—was leaving gallon-jugs of water along a migrant trail in the southern Arizona desert when he was spotted by the US Fish and Wildlife Service and given a $175 fine for littering, despite the boxes full of trash he and fellow volunteers had picked up. Just two days earlier, he found the body of a 14-year-old girl from El Salvador along a trail who died of exposure on her way to reunite with her family. Though Millis was excused from paying the fine or serving jail time, he was given a guilty sentence. He fought the conviction on the grounds that humanitarian aid is not a crime.

EcoHearth: What motivated you to volunteer with No More Deaths?

Dan Millis: I got involved when I was a high-school Spanish teacher and was looking for a social-justice issue to involve the students and to do environmental service projects.

I think it’s important for people to make the connection between social justice and environmental restoration, as the two are inextricably linked. Valuing human lives expands the sphere of caring for our planet because we’re not really separate from nature. Currently, I work with the Sierra Club Borderlands campaign as a team organizer.

EH: Where does your conviction for littering stand?

DM: We’ve appealed to the US District Court and it was upheld. Now we are appealing to the 9th Circuit Court and we’ll see if they hear the case.

EH: Which activities on the US-Mexican border impose the most significant damage to the desert ecosystem?

DM: That’s easy—the border wall. We now have nearly 370 miles of border wall and another 300 miles of vehicle barriers strewn across our fragile desert ecosystems. This ridiculous project has been undertaken in direct violation of 36 federal protection laws, including the Clean Air Act, Clean Water Act and Endangered Species Act. The wall itself has stranded migratory wildlife, destroyed and fragmented habitat, caused significant erosion and sedimentation problems, and has resulted in disastrous floods. Additionally, the Department of Homeland Security has installed high-voltage lighting that disturbs nocturnal animals, plowed access roads through pristine desert, and torn across roadless areas in off-road vehicles. We don’t know what the costs will be of this project to endangered species and their habitats, but we do know that construction of the wall itself has already cost taxpayers at least $2.4 billion and could end up costing as much as $49 billion as it is tunneled under, climbed over and cut over the next 25 years. Walls and enforcement-only policies like these don’t stop migration, but rather push it out farther into the more remote desert areas, where hundreds of migrants die each year.

EH: For those of us who live far from our southern border, describe what is it like on the frontlines of humanitarian aid for migrants from the south.

DM: I can’t tell you how horrible it is to see droves of exhausted, dehydrated people of all ages wandering in the heat. Whether lost or tired along a migrant trail in southern Arizona, or disoriented and abused after deportation to northern Mexico, it’s horrible to see people victimized by our insane trade and border policies.

EH: What are the main reasons people leave their homes in the south to come to the US?

DM: Each person has her or his own reasons, but most people I talk to feel they really have no choice. Either stay home and continue to endure impossible conditions, or chance it and head north to improve their lot and salir adelante (move ahead). Many people are not only fleeing poverty, but have specific needs like reuniting with family members on the US side, or earning enough money to pay for a loved one’s surgery, for example.

EH: There are people who are vehemently opposed to immigration from Latin America. Do they also have a physical presence where you are giving humanitarian aid? If so, do they pose a threat to your work?

DM: If you’re talking about the so-called Minutemen, I’ve never seen one while working on the Arizona border. They’re more hype than help. I have seen one vigilante-type man on a quad once, who said he was looking for “wetbacks and drugs.” You see racist counter-protesters at immigrants’-rights marches, but in the desert, where there are no cameras, there aren’t many vigilantes either. There are, however, vandals who destroy our humanitarian aid supplies left on migrant trails. The most common form of vandalism of water is stabbing. Vandals will take the time and effort to individually stab each water jug or water bottle, usually multiple times. These guys need some serious anger-management classes.

EH: Are you also seeing climate refugees?

DM: I don’t know. Many campesinos (country folk) and indigenous people come through the desert after losing access to their land. I blame NAFTA more than climate change, but it might be a factor as well.

Border walls and increased border militarization were really stepped up in the mid 1990s, right around the same time as the passage of NAFTA. This is not sheer coincidence. If trade is allowed to flow freely across borders, labor will naturally follow suit. Border-enforcement initiatives like Operation Hold the Line and Operation Gatekeeper were launched in the mid 1990s as an attempt to block this inevitable flow of migrant workers. NAFTA has resulted in the privatization of communal farmlands, dumping of cheap and subsidized US corn on Mexican markets, and the expansion of free-trade zones along the border. As poverty in the countryside increased, the border region grew more crowded, polluted and poor. Instead of addressing the root causes of this problem, the US response was to wall it off.

EH: No More Deaths has documented abuses by the US Border Patrol while migrants are in custody (up to 72 hours), including the denial of water, food and medical treatment. Has your campaign to implement humane and sanitary processing-center conditions, and humane repatriation and deportation processes, received any attention from Arizona’s Congressional representatives?

DM: Now that we’ve put out a report documenting abuses of migrants in short-term Border Patrol custody, we’re launching a new custody-standards campaign based on that. We hope that by exposing these injustices in a verifiable and methodical way, we can seek real change that allows for independent oversight and enforcement of humane custody standards.

[Breaking News: Yesterday another NMD volunteer, Walt Staton, was convicted of "knowingly littering garbage or other debris" after leaving humanitarian aid for undocumented migrants in the Arizona desert. Read the Arizona Daily article and the NMD press release.- Ed.]

http://www.ecohearth.com/eco-zine/eco-heroes/572-quenching-thirst-in-the-desert-an-interview-with-dan-millis.html